Y Comisiwn ar Bwerau a Threfniadau Etholiadol Cynulliad
Cenedlaethol Cymru
|
Y 7fed Cyfarfod Cyhoeddus a gynhaliwyd yng Nghaerdydd
Ddydd Iau, 10 Gorffennaf 2003
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| COFNOD O GWESTIYNAU A SYLWADAU YSGRIFENEDIG |
| "Can more powers be allocated to the Assembly in devolved
areas such as education and agriculture?" |
| "I would like to see far more powers allocated
to education and agriculture so that these areas become
fully devolved allowing Wales to decide on matters such
as university fees, student grants, GM crops etc." |
|
Delme Bowen
|
| What steps are being taken to consult the people
of Wales on increased powers of the Assembly. Will the
Assembly also consider withdrawing the ‘list’
representation in the Assembly. |
| The Welsh Assembly should have increased powers as a
matter of urgency. The low turnout at the 2003 election
is an indication of peoples disillusionment and misconceived
understanding of the Assembly’s powers. People sincerely
believed that they had powers to speak for Wales on my
issues affecting their lives and we were very despondent
to learn that they had even less powers than the Scottish
Parliament. |
|
Ray Davies
|
| "I voted for the National Assembly for Wales,
give us another vote and I would vote to do away with
the National Assembly for Wales. It is a waste of money.
If we are unable to, then cut the number of AMs down to
44- 2 per District Council Area - 22 District Councils.
There is no need to build a £50m glasshouse. Use the money
on social services in Wales." |
|
WB Evans
|
| When the referendum was held to find whether the
people of Wales wanted a separate Assembly to Westminster,
my immediate thought was why? I already had to vote for
four separate layers of government (Community Council,
County Council, House of Commons, and European Parliament)
so why add a fifth? It would just be another layer of
bureaucracy, bringing with it more cost, more confusion
and more tiresome politicians to listen to while they
do very little. |
| Clearly the majority of people thought the same as me
as less than 25% of those able to vote in the referendum,
actually supported the idea. |
| In fact my worst fears have been borne out, as we have
seen millions spent on a new Assembly building, an awful
lot of hot air spoken and I can't see that anything has
been achieved. It even seems possible that a sixth level
of democracy will be added, if some get their way, and
we begin voting for members of the House of Lords! |
| In summary, the change I would wish to make would be
to abolish the Welsh Assembly altogether and return to
the previous combination of local government by County
Councils with funding and major policy decisions provided
by Westminster. |
|
Timothy Hellis
|
| Our opinion is to abolish proportional representation,
we think that the Assembly should adopt the single transferable
vote, this would give every constituency two AMs who can
be voted in by the people they represent. Bring the people
back into politics. |
|
Gerome a Steve Jackson
|
| "I believe that the National Assembly for Wales
should be given primary legislative and tax varying powers
on the model of the Scottish Parliament. I cannot see
that depending on Parliament at Westminster to pass legislation
on behalf of Wales is a satisfactory arrangements and
must surely restrict the Assembly’s ability to formulate
and implement its own policies. This situation seems to
have been made even less workable by the recent apparent
downgrading of the Secretary of State for Wales’
role. This is all bad enough with governments of the same
political persuasion in both Cardiff and Westminster,
but one can only imaging how Wales might suffer if and
when different parties are in power on either side of
the border – the Westminster Government in that case
would have a vested interest in frustrating and stallin
on the decisions of the Assembly Government. |
| Regarding electoral arrangements, I feel that the number
of Assembly Members should be increased to 80 and that
they should be elected by some form of proportional representation." |
|
John McDougall
|
| This evening I attended the evidence session in
Cardiff City Hall and was impressed at the opportunities
given to discuss the issues being looked at by your Commission.
I decided not to speak. I did however decide to put forward
a few views to your Commission in writing. |
| Ensuring a Useful Outcome |
| As a general point it is important that the value of
your work is not lost by presenting only conclusions that
would not command widespread support at the present time,
and thus risk being shelved for so long that events overtake
them. One way to avoid this would be that your report,
after describing the consultation process, could set out
a small number of options on an ascending scale of change
from the present situation. I could then recommend
on what could be done at present, which would be likely
to command wide support. For the further options
it could suggest a fairly open timescale for implementing
them as stepped changes. The timescale would depend
on the Assembly and the central Government conclusions
that circumstances (Assembly experience, resources, perceived
general support) were in place and on required tests of
support via inclusion in Assembly and Parliamentary manifestos
(referendum?). |
| Options for Change |
| A list of options to be set out and discussed could
feature |
| No change |
| Rounding up the implementation powers over presently
devolved topics. |
| Broadening the devolved area over which the Assembly
has implementation powers to include home office functions
(police, courts, legal aid, probation, prisons). |
| Primary legislative powers over prescribed fields where
a distincitve Wales dimension exists such as education
and language culture |
| Primary legislative powers over all devolved areas. |
| Each of these could be supported in principle but subject
their implementation being determined when it was perceived
that the right base of experience and resources had been
developed and the requisite levels of support being in
place. |
| The first three could be achieved without amending the
Government of Wales Act. Only changes going beyond
the Government of Wales Act should need prior support
by inclusion in an election manifesto. This approach
of ascending options would lend itself to a gradual process
of development as the Assembly, and the community of policy
support in Wales, mature. Also as the public understanding
of the Assembly role grows. It would give time to
develop skills and resources at elected and staff levels
so avoiding the potential for serious mistakes if the
Assembly takes on too much too fast. Some further
comments on this are: |
| Rounding Up Option |
| From experience some of the rounding up which should
be justified at a very early date by a transfer of functions
order include |
| Powers under the Electricity Acts to decide on larger
power stations and related matters such as power lines.
The Assembly already has power over small power stations.
The devolution of Electricity Act powers to Scotland was
only clarified after 1999 and is a precedent |
| Powers under the Harbours Acts to determine port proposals
such as ferry port or cargo schemes. The Assembly already
has powers in regard to Fisheries Harbours |
| Powers over the Wales Transport Office and its functions.
These powers were formerly exercised through Traffic Commissioner
offices, one based in Cardiff covering South Wales and
another for North Wales and the North West of England.
These were merged into a Wales Transport Office, under
the then Department of Transport, back in about 1996 but
the new Wales office is based in Birmingham sharing accommodation
with the Midlands office |
| Powers to set up and manage a separate Planning Inspectorate
for Wales, just as both Scotland and Northern Ireland
have their own equivalent service but Wales is covered
through a joint body with England |
| Powers over building regulation matters |
| Animal health powers. However this should be related
to the re establishment of an animal health laboratory
at a central location in Wales, run by the UK wide laboratory
service. Following the closure of laboratories in North
and South Wales by the last Conservative Government there
is no laboratory facility in Wales despite the concentration
of livestock. |
| Home Office Functions Options |
| On the potential for the Assembly to expand its area
of responsibility beyond that of the old Welsh Office
there are two alternative scenarios which could be put
forward. One is for the Assembly to have such powers
quickly but I see issues there of the time needed to develop
expertise at official and political level on handling
very sensitive matters. An alternative scenario
which could also be proposed would be that in the short
term the Home Office set up a Division for Wales.
This would remain in the Home Office but be based in Cardiff
covering police, courts administration, prisons, probation,
legal aid and so on. There would be liaison with
the Assembly. The possible transfer to the
Assembly would then be a matter for future consideration
building on the development of Cardiff based expertise. |
| Timescale |
| Based on my experience in the Welsh Office and Assembly
I believe it takes time for all concerned to acquire expertise.
My preference in timescale would therefore be that having
put forward the options a sensible timescale be suggested.
Possibly something along the lines of: |
| 2004 transfer of functions order to round up Assembly
implementation powers in presently devolved areas, and
to tidy up any unclear areas |
| 2004 – 2005 setting up a Wales Division of the
Home Office liaising with the Assembly |
| 2004 – 2007 A period of consolidation for the Assembly
to use its present powers and the rounded up powers as
well as developing links with the Home Office Wales Division |
| 2007 Assembly Election an opportunity for parties to
propose to the electorate any further proposals for acquiring
control over Home office functions or for part or full
legislative roles. Following the elections, and subject
to the outcome, discussions with Whitehall would commence
on implementing the former by a transfer of functions
order or the latter by a new Government of Wales Bill.
Whether or not a referendum were needed on proposals requiring
a Bill could be left open to that time. A Bill to amend
the Government of Wales Act could deal with matters such
as how to split the Executive and legislature, to clarify
the use of the term Minister, to allow greater flexibility
for the Assembly in how to implement duties to have partnerships
and other clarification. |
| Number of Members |
| To propose more members at the moment would be bound
to damage the Assembly in the views of a general public
whose views are somewhat negative and coloured by a selective
press. It should have to earn any extra members
by developing its role and showing results. For
the present it could be suggested that acquiring some
rounded up powers, liaising with Home Office Wales Division
and possibly, after 2007, taking over the Home Office
functions should be achieved with the present number of
members. Only if, again after 2007, there were to
be legislative powers should the number be increased,
and then by the minimum necessary, possibly from 60 to
65. |
| Interim Improvement to Legislation for Wales |
| As the phased approach proposed would disappoint those
wanting more legislative power at present possibly your
report could suggest an interim improvement. This
could be in the form of a Concordat between the Assembly,
the Wales Office and Parliament to guarantee the Assembly
Parliamentary time for two bills a year, as well as Welsh
clauses to general bills where appropriate. This
could be linked to procedures to ensure the Welsh MPs
have a scrutiny role thereby helping involve them in the
Assembly's activities and hopefully win their support
and trust |
| Assembly Skills |
| Developing skills at policy development and legislative
process takes time. The Assembly needs to put effort
into this even for its present work. I suggest you
consider whether to recommend it follows the route taken
in Scotland. There the Civil Service College (I
think it may have recently changed its name from this),
traditionally operating from accommodation in London and
Sunningdale, has opened a training centre in Edinburgh.
A similar arrangement in Cardiff is needed. This
could provide high quality training for civil servants
from the Assembly, but also those in other Government
offices in Wales, and indeed for those in the many Government
offices in nearby areas of England such as Bath, Cheltenham
and Bristol who would find a Cardiff facility convenient. |
| I hope that you will find somethinig of interest in
this flow of suggestions |
|
Mr Lyn Owen
|
| "When people say that it is too soon for the National
Assembly to have stronger powers, I would like to ask,
what is it that we are waiting for and for how long? This
was not the case for Scotland. |
| It seems that opposition to stronger powers for the
National Assembly has more to do with prejudice than any
reasoned arguments. The Assembly should be given primary
legislation and tax varying powers on the same basis as
the Scottish parliament. |
| For the Assembly to depend on the Westminster Parliament
to pass legislation on behalf of Wales is not satisfactory.
How will this arrangement work, if and when different
political parties are in power in Cardiff and London?
Assembly members need to have clear powers and to know
that they can develop and implement policies without depending
on the good will of the government in London, with limited
parliamentary time and perhaps little interest or understanding
of Wales. I believe that the number of Assembly Members
should be increased to at least 80 and be elected by a
system of proportional representation. This could be achieved
by either an increase in members elected by the Additional
Member System or by wholly using a system of Single Transferable
Vote." |
|
Stephen Owen
|
| "I would like to see the voting system for Assembly
elections (& those for Local Government and National
Elections also) changed to the Single Transferable Vote.
I am a 75 year old voter who has participated in every
election (European, National, Assembly and Local Government)
for which I have been eligible since the age of 21 and
whose vote has not once, in all those 54 years, had any
bearing on the result whatsoever. To all intents and purposes
I feel disenfranchised by the present systems. I want
to be able to make my vote effective and can see no other
way of achieving this than by means of a change to S.T.V." |
|
Albert William Pearcy
|
| I am a disenfranchised voter - I have voted at
every public election during the 30 years since my 18th
birthday, but for two occasions on local elections have
failed to elect a representative. I believe that a further
definition of representativeness (not included in your
consultation document) is the number or share of voters
who can identify with a representative that they helped
elect. |
| My experience of the present electoral system is: |
| Despite an element of PR, my vote failed to count (My
preferred party won a constituency seat and hence not
a list seat). |
| I felt under pressure to vote tactically- ie to lie
to the returning officer (because my preferred candidate
and party were not one of the front runners. I did not
like that experience, especially as the result was close
between my second preference and another party which I
did not support. |
| I want to see an end to tactical voting by the abolition
of x voting and the introduction of preference voting
(preferably in multi-member seats -single transferable
vote-but failing that in single member constituencies
and on the party list within one party list of the voters
choice. |
|
Charlie Pearcy
|
| INTRODUCTION |
| This submission is limited to three broad issues - the
power of the Assembly, Its effectiveness, and the electoral
arrangements. |
| POWERS OF THE ASSEMBLY |
| Over the last few years we have begun to see policy
changes implemented by the Assembly. This has culminated
in an approach enshrined by the term a "Welsh Way". This
has had an impact the area of public sector reform. This
has included, for example, the creation of Local Health
Boards, a new focus upon primary care, the promotion of
a distinct educational agendas and the introduction of
the Wales Programme of Improvement. These and other measures
which amount to significant policy variation from Westminster.
|
| We recognise that the distinct Welsh Agenda has been
developed by the Assembly with its current legislative
powers. These policies need to be further developed and
fully implemented. This does not require the accession
of any additional powers. |
| There are often comparisons made between the different
powers of the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament.
The latter has primary legislative powers and specific
tax raising powers. We note that the Scottish Parliament
has not used its tax raising powers. |
| We also note that the existing National Assembly has
only existed for four years. It was established with the
support of only twenty five percent of the Welsh Population
in a referendum. This referendum resulted in significant
constitutional changes despite the low turnout... It is
our view that if the Commission were to recommend an extension
of powers, particularly in the realms of primary legislation,
then a new referendum would need to be held, to assess
whether there was support for such a radical change. |
| EFFECTIVENESS |
| As indicated above, the Assembly has developed a distinct
Welsh agenda in a large number of areas. In addition to
major policy developments there have been a number of
populist initiatives including free bus passes for pensioners
and more latterly the Manifesto commitment to provide
school breakfasts for young children. |
| It is our view that these new policies and initiatives
need to "bed in" and prove their effectiveness. We are
for example aware that despite new initiatives in the
National Health Service which have been accompanied by
significant additional expenditure, the impact on the
health of the Welsh population is not yet evident. The
National Assembly is a democratically elected body. However
it still works through a whole range of non-elected qango's.
We are concerned that the National Assembly should be
seen to ensure that the democratic deficit in the control
and powers exercised by these bodies is remedied. Overall,
the policy initiatives have been limited to a small number
of departments. There has not been a cohesive programme
for change which is integrative and tackles all the major
issues confronting the people of Wales. |
| ELECTORAL ARRANGEMENTS |
| The current electoral arrangements, provide for the
direct election, on the "first past the post system, for
"constituency AM’s" as well as AM’s elected
via the regional list system. Anecdotal evidence from
the last Assembly elections, seem to show quite a considerable
number of spoilt papers. This may be an indication of
the strong feelings of individuals regarding the existence
of the National Assembly. More importantly, however, there
was also evidence, from discussions with individuals,
that the regional list voting paper was seen as extremely
complex and difficult for individuals to understand. We
also have a more fundamental problem with the regional
list system. It does not provide a direct relationship
between the AM and a constituency. It is a system which
does not provide a direct link between the electors and
the person elected to work on their behalf. Power without
direct accountability? We therefore would not support
the continuation of the regional list system for elections
to the National Assembly. We also consider that 60 people
are more than adequate, with the existing Assembly powers
and remit, to achieve the visions set by the National
Assembly. We consider that in the current climate it would
be counter productive to seek to increase the number of
AM’s. A more constructive debate would be on the
policies and action developed by those individuals through
the Assembly. |
|
John Sheppard
|
|
Cynghorydd
|
| As I was unable to attend the meeting at Cardiff
City Hall on Thursday last, the 10th July,
I thought I would write to you with my observations regarding
the National Assembly for Wales. First we have had the
debacle of having Alun Michael foisted on the Assembly
as Leader to satisfy the whim of the Prime Minister. The
media had a field day! |
| It was then decided that all senior citizens should
enjoy free bus travel. Although this appeared to be excellent
at first, it soon became apparent that large towns and
cities could not cope with the extra cost and said it
was necessary for Council Tax to increase. |
| Next we have seen millions of pounds spent on translation
costs to satisfy the whims of the new ‘Welsh Learners’
when most people living in Wales are monoglot. I do object
when I phone offices to have to wait whilst I am spoken
to in Welsh before I am asked if I wish to converse in
English. The English-speaking majority seem to be ignored! |
| I am unable to understand why prescriptions for those
under 25 can be dispensed freely as long as they are dispensed
in Wales. The Health Minister continually tells us how
difficult things are despite the huge amounts being spent.
Surely, it would be common sense to freely dispense prescriptions
for the under 25s only if the prescription is for medicines
prescribed by a Doctor in Wales. |
| Objective One money was going to cure all ills, but
the jobs it was supposed to generate do not seem to have
materialised. |
| Again, what about E.L.W.A? Surely we have experts in
Wales who could monitor these grants. |
| Members of the Assembly have ensured their pensions
are inflation-proofed. Are they still hoping for large
salary increases, as well as enlarging their number to
80 members – a mere 33 1/3% increase? |
| However, most of the foregoing pales into insignificance
at the Assembly’s undemocratic decision to defer
Local Elections until 2004. This idea first saw the light
of day when Mr Peter Law was Minister for Local Government
and, when I expressed my concern in a letter to him, he
did me the courtesy of replying and telling me that no
definite decision had been made but he would keep me informed.
Nothing further was heard until Mrs Edwina Hart took Local
Government affairs under her general umbrella following
the Lab-Lib Agreement. |
| When the matter came to light again I contacted Mrs
Hart’s secretary and received a telephone call from
a civil servant to advise me that soundings were being
taken now but that in any case I should contact my constituency
AM – Mr Rhodri Morgan. I did this and received a
post card saying that he had received my letter and would
be in touch whenever a decision was made. The silence
has been deafening! This was understandable a short time
later when it was announced in the Press – not given
any publicity on T.V. or Radio – that after due research
Mrs Hart had decided that Local Elections would be deferred
until 2004 because the Electorate was happy with this.
One cannot help but wonder if the only people whose opinion
was sought were those who could be guaranteed to give
the answer the Assembly wanted. To add insult we were
told deferring the Local Elections was necessary because
we might get mixed up having to vote for so many candidates
at one time. How patronising! I wonder how we all managed
in the days when the only information on a Ballot Paper
were the names of the various candidates. How dare they
patronise us like this? |
| Now we hear that they are minded to choose another alternative
date in 2004 for Local Elections because May would conflict
with European Elections and ‘we might be confused
and mixed-up’. What are they afraid of? They made
sure we didn’t have the Devolution date in Wales
on the same day as Scotland. If we had, I am sure the
outcome would have been different. Unfortunately, those
in power seem to be unaware of Economics – they are
so free with Public Funds. |
| Perhaps they should wait before proceeding with the
proposed Assembly Building. If a Referendum were held
tomorrow I am sure there would be a large turn-out and
I am in no doubt as to what the result would be. |
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