Y Comisiwn ar Bwerau a Threfniadau Etholiadol Cynulliad
Cenedlaethol Cymru
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Y 6ed Cyfarfod Cyhoeddus a gynhaliwyd ym Merthyr Tudful
Ddydd Iau, 26 Mehefin 2003
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COFNOD O GWESTIYNAU A SYLWADAU YSGRIFENEDIG
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| "Would the Commission consider the expense and high
administrative burden of switching the control of the
Welsh Police to the Assembly?" |
| "I believe that there is no need to have different policing
to England. As this task would be extremely time consuming
and costly with start up problems, the negative impacts
seem to outweigh the positive." |
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Alex Bevan
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| "Does the Government of Wales Act provide the
Assembly with the Powers it needs to operate effectively
and meet the expectations of the people of Wales? |
| The two key words in the question are ‘effectively’
and expectations’. A position on this question is
driven by whether you would want the Asembly to have primary
legislative powers or not; that is a more independent
Wales from Westminster or not. If more independence is
desirable then the Government of Wales Act does not go
far enough in that the power of primary legislation is
not afforded to the Assembly. I am not sure that the ‘expectations
of the people of Wales are clear. What is reasonable accepted
ground is a disillusionment with politics in general and
uncertainty about the role of the Assembly. It is seen
by many as a waste of time and money; by others as a statement
of national identity. |
| Whether, and if so how, the powers should be extended,
strengthened or changed and whether they should include
tax varying powers. |
| In essence this question covers the same territory –
more independence reuiqres more direct legislative powers.
Tax raising powers are the most obvious example of how
the institution of Government can directly assert its
influence and it is usually recognised the single largest
difference between Scotland and Wales is the issue of
tax raising powers. Other issues that occur include, for
example, control of police force. |
| If the Assembly were to acquire greater law making
powers – it is inevitable that it would need to be
reconstituted on the Parliamentary model? |
| ‘Inevitably’ is probably a little strong,
but it is nevertheless very likely. It is important that
citizens recognise how the institutions of government
work and in the UK the parliamentary system is well understood.
There are however different designs, not least of which
is the European model, which accords the same principles
but organisationally looks very different. |
| If so what organisational changes would be needed
to support this model and what would be the gains and
losses from making this change? |
| The citizenry would see a style of government that they
are used to if modelled on the Westminster way of doing
things. It is debatable whether the current model has
produced a more consensual form of politics and the ability
to work thematically has not been very evident in the
first term. It is therefore likely that the losses will
not be too great; the benefit may be clearer government
for the public. |
| How effective has the Assembly been in influencing
UK Government policy |
| making in relation to Wales – what are the practical
examples which illustrate the strengths and weaknesses
of the process? |
| Given that the art of influence is sometimes a hidden
one, it is very difficult fo rthe lay-person to determine
the relative success or failure of the Assembly in influencing
national policy. There are examples of where secondary
legislation has been used to abolish testing in primary
schools, to provide free school milk for infant children
etc, and there is the high profile issue of Wales receiving
Treasury support to match fund Objective 1. The ‘distinctly
Welsh’ policies do tend on the whole to be products
of secondary legislation and regulation. It is arguable
however, that this has only been possible through ensuring
sufficient space was created in the UK wide primary legislation.
Reality is unclear. |
| What are the advantages and disadvantages in principle
of having a law making process which is shared between
Cardiff and Westminster and what are the respective contributions
of AMs, MPs and Peers? |
| Respecting that the question is asked at a principles
level, the construct recognises the principle of subsidiarity
with decision making being delegated to the institution
closest to the public interface that has the capacity
and competence to make the decision. In keeping with this
AMs by their nature should be able to lead and articulate
locally based issues in a much more intense way than MPs
are able to. Similarly MPs should be able to represent
constituency views and interests at the national level. |
| What would be gained or lost if powers to make fundamental
policy changes through primary legislation were passed
from Westminster to Cardiff? |
| Again the answer depends on personal position. Unionists
would claim that the inherent strength of a collective
UK position on issues of national concern would be weakened
in circumstances where Wales were empowered to take a
different view to Westminster. The scale of this threat
in reality is debatable as it is unlikely that primary
legislation on issues such as defence will be devolved.
There may be issues of economy of scale to address as
well as capacity questions about the ability of the Civil
Service to effectively service another institution with
primary legislation capacity. Supporters of more independence
would counter such positions based on the principle that
decisions that influence people’s lives would be
taken closer to home and are therefore likely to be more
informed, relevant and better. |
| How would Welsh interests be affected if the role
of Welsh MPs were to be |
| reduced as a consequence of the acquisition of primary
law making powers by the National Assembly? |
| It is necessary to be clear about how much devolution
is on the table. Absolute devolution would make it difficult
to justify the role of Welsh MPs. Reality suggests however
that such a position is unlikely and that primary law
making, at least initially would be limited. As such Welsh
MPs would continue to have a role in representing the
interests of the Principality in all arenas where sovereignty
of decision making remains in Westminster. |
| How would Welsh interests be affected if the Secretary
of State’s role was reduced as a consequence of the
acquisition of primary law making powers by the Assembly? |
| The same argument as that rehearsed in the previous
question applies. |
| What would be gained or lost if there was a clearer
separation between |
| England and Wales in policy development and implementation? |
| The gain may manifest as more specific policy positions
directly aligned to Welsh needs rather than perhaps UK
wide interests. The most obvious loss would be the skill
and tacit knowledge that is currently ‘trade’
between Wales and England based policy teams and civil
servants. It would be difficult for a country the size
of Wales to replicate this pool of talent. |
| How should we evaluate the costs and benefits of
moving to a different form of devolution in Wales? |
| Such a complex judgement would have to develop in the
medium term. Progress against national strategic targets
for improvement which tend to be outcome based are the
litmus test of success. A model to make such a judgement
would probably need to apply the principles of the ‘balanced
score card’ technique although making such a determination
is not possible without meaningful information around
which to form a judgement. |
| What are the benefits which should be included in
this evaluation – and what values should be attached
to them? |
| No view to offer. |
| On Electoral Arrangements: |
| Is the current size of the Assembly adequate to undertake
its responsibilities in meeting the needs of Wales? |
| It would seem difficult to justify an increase in the
number of AMs, particularly given the recent public debate
about how many days they actually spend in the Assembly. |
| What evidence is there that the current duties as
set out in para 12 above are not being fulfilled adequately
and what scope exists to re-organise working arrangements
to improve effectiveness without creating more Members?
|
| To a degree the comment in the previous question is
relevant here. If there is pressure on AMs then perhaps
a rethink in terms of how Assembly sessions are organised
to allow for more days would be helpful. Is there a justification
in the modern age for the lengthy periods of recess that
the Assembly has? |
| In terms of the earlier part of the question, it is
difficult at a distance to form a view o the effectiveness
of the processes of the Assembly. Perhaps it is relevant
to suggest that the current ELWA experience is case studied
to determine whether the Assembly could have acted differently
in the establishment, assistance or monitoring of this
Assembly Sponsored Body. |
| If reorganisation would not achieve the necessary
improvements, what number of Members would be required
for the existing responsibilities to be discharged effectively?
|
| This is an impossible question to have an informed view
on. Public perception of more reasonably well paid AMs
is likely to be mixed at best. |
| What are the advantages, other than cost, of a relatively
small Assembly which might be lost if numbers were increased? |
| It is reasonably straightforward to identify accountabilities
in a small organisation; |
| It is possible that relative size incentivises more
partnership working with other layers of government, particularly
local government. |
| Would the present number of Members be able effectively
to take on the additional work involved in acquiring either
significant new functions or primary legislative powers? |
| To a degree there may need to be a ‘suck it and
see’ approach. More work may incentivise better priority
setting and better delegation of issues to other bodies,
particularly local government. If there were no new AMs
there would have to be better focus. |
| Are there areas of current work which could be reduced,
or could existing arrangements, such as the size of Committees
and the frequency of meetings, be changed to accommodate
such extra responsibilities and if so what changes would
you recommend? |
| We are probably not close enough to the Assembly to
comment in detail. One area that offers opportunity however
is to dramatically reduce the number of Plans that the
Assembly require of Local Government. This would streamline
processes significantly and create capacity to take on
additional responsibilities. |
| Is there is a case for increasing the number of Members
if additional powers are conferred on the Assembly–
and if so, what would be its appropriate size? |
| Possibly, but without knowing the nature of the new
powers and the resources required to discharge them, it
is difficult to offer an informed view. It would be necessary
to disaggregate workload issues between AMs and civil
servants before coming to a view on numbers. |
| What is your experience of the operation of the present
electoral system – what are its advantages and disadvantages
and what changes would you like to see? |
| The position you take very much depends on your view
of proportional representation. The current system clearly
is designed to promote this and all the advantages and
disadvantages it brings. Its downside perhaps is that
the public struggle to understand the ‘list’
system and fail to see how candidates who failed to win
a constituency seat still end up in the Assembly. This
would be the place to express any view on only being able
to stand as a constituency or a list candidate but not
both. |
| Should more be done through the electoral system
to influence the characteristics of the candidates put
forward by the political parties and if so what measures
would you recommend? |
| You may choose to offer a view on political parties
retaining the power to determine their own candidates
or not. A more direct electoral system change challenges
the sovereignty of the party to ultimately decide. Is
this a good thing or a bad thing? |
| Bearing in mind that the number of Welsh Parliamentary
constituencies may change in the future – how important
is it to maintain common boundaries for Assembly and Parliamentary
constituencies? |
| The issue here is perhaps not so much a technical one
as keeping clarity with the electorate over who represents
them. Parliamentary boundaries are understood by the public,
local government ward boundaries are reasonably understood
– to introduce a third set of boundaries is hardly
likely to promote a better understanding of electoral
representation than is currently the case. |
| In providing comments for you to consider I have
attempted to maintain a neutral position and any lapses
are unintentional. I trust you will find these comments
helpful. |
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Y Cynghorydd Jim Davies
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Cynghorydd Bwrdeistref Sirol ar gyfer
Ward Gogledd Croesyceiliog
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Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen
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| "1. Candidates for the Assembly should only be allowed
to place their name on one list. |
| This would ensure that candidates who have been defeated
under the first past the post system do not sneak in through
the back door. We are seeing candidates for the Assembly
having two bites at the cherry, indeed some Assembly Members
have never won an election. |
| If the Assembly is to retain a P R system it needs to
radically overhaul the present system. |
| The allocation of regional seats is disproportionate
to the votes cast |
| Labour 36% of vote No seats allocated |
| Plaid 19.7% of vote 7 seats allocated |
| Tories 19.2% of vote 10 seats |
| Lib Dems 12.7% of vote 3 seats |
| Thus we see a party who receives the most in the regional
vote is left empty handed, whilst a party that is rejected
under the First past the post system is rewarded with
the greatest number of the regional allocation. This system
cannot be a fair and equitable system and must come under
close scrutiny in order to effect change before the next
election." |
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D T Hardacre
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Cynghorydd Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili
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| "Why is it necessary for there to be 60 AMs in the Welsh
Assembly, when we only have 40 MPs in London. PR in its
present form is undemocratic, when 20 AMs are elected
to the Welsh Assembly without anyone personally voting
for them. They get rejected by voters in the constituency
then get elected by back door by regional top-up list." |
| "I feel that Welsh Assembly at present has more power
than it can handle, until the AMs show that they can carry
out their duties in a very professional manner then their
powers should not be increased. We still have the most
expensive hole in the ground (8 million plus) in Europe.
Richard Rogers debacle which is still in question and
with nothing to show for this waste of money. How can
public have faith in these ministers." |
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Keith Hayden
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| "Candidates should be barred from standing for
both regional list and a constituency seat. |
| The system of PR used disenfranchised tens of thousand
of voters using their second vote. This second vote should
be separated from the first if a fair representation according
to votes cast is achieved. |
| Top up regional AM should be reduced to 10 and be all
Wales candidates/ Members. |
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Irene James AC
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| "Would the National Government be able to veto the choice
of a different system of voting in Wales, such as the
Single Transferable Vote?" |
| "The recent Assembly election showed a lamentable turn
out which is a cause of concern to anyone interested in
Politics as they affect Wales. I am 72 years of age and
this is the first time that I failed to vote. There is
not a single reason why I, and many friends and colleagues
chose not to vote. One of the reasons was not being able
to choose between the different parties standing for election.
If the Assembly is to work for Wales and not a particular
party with vested interests, the present FPTP, I believe,
will have to be changed. The ‘Single Transferable
Vote’ would enable people who are interested in the
future of Wales, be it independence or otherwise, to put
themselves forward for election independent of any party
affiliation and could reflect a more wide church of opinion.
Easy? No! Best for the future of Wales? Anything would
be better than the system we are failing Wales with now!" |
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Trevor Morgan
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| How the Assembly functions as compared to the
Welsh Office? |
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Ron Page
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| "Is it not apparent that recent events such as
the ELWA situation which relied upon the Audit Commission
to bring it to public attention, demonstrates that the
relationship between ELWA and the Minister/Dept responsible
suffers from the overtly informal approach adopted by
members to most issues." |
| "The approach to debate in the Assembly unfortunately
gives credence to the 'Talking Shop' charges. A possible
reason for the foregoing, raises questions over the quality
of representation." |
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John Power
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| "As a matter of principle, shouldn't candidates
for the National Assembly who choose to stand for election
in the constituencies be legally excluded from the regional
lists, rather than being given the opportunity of 'two
bites of the cherry' as it were?" |
| "The National Assembly has acquitted itself well in
its first four-year period. It should be allowed to progress
towards the status accorded to the Scots Parliament. It
has helped to raise the profile of Wales as a nation,
and emphasises the contribution that Wales can continue
to make to the United Kingdom. The National Assembly,
as a body, should further its own standing by acting speedily
and decisively in getting the building completed that
is intended to be the home of the National Assembly." |
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Bill Tudor
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| "Why does the Assembly require a separate debating
Chamber?" |
| "Surely this money would be better spent on schools,
hospitals etc. They have used the one building without
any serious inconvenience I am sure." |
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Margaret E. Williams
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| "Would we be better off if the Assembly was separated
from London Parliament? |
| I.e. education wise, job wise, hospitals/health etc." |
| "Only people living in the valleys know what is needed
to help unemployment, education and health issues. People
living in England have different problems to us. So in
my opinion the Assembly should be run by the Welsh for
the Welsh. It can't be any worse than it is now." |
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Yvonne Wood
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