Y Comisiwn ar Bwerau a Threfniadau Etholiadol Cynulliad
Cenedlaethol Cymru
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Y 5ed Cyfarfod Cyhoeddus a gynhaliwyd yng Nghasnewydd
Ddydd Iau 22 Mai 2003
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COFNOD O GWESTIYNAU A SYLWADAU YSGRIFENEDIG
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| Question 1 |
| 1) We are all aware that Wales has fewer Assembly Members
relative to the electorate than Scotland or Northern Ireland.
I am not sure of the reasons for this. I believe it was
suggested that, because Scotland's Parliament has more
powers, they needed more members. However, my experience
is that the workload is greatest for those close to but
not having executive authority. Has the Commission undertaken
any study of the relative workloads of the Ministers in
Wales and Scotland? My impression is that those in Wales
have the greater workload and need (as in Scotland) at
least one Deputy Minister for every Minister. Does the
Commission have a view on this? |
| Related to the same point, it has been said that good
government needs a strong opposition in front and a strong
backbench behind. Does the Commission have any opinion
on the current ratio of "Ministers" to backbenchers. Bearing
in mind that several additional Governing party AMs are
nominated as "Committee Chairs", is the Commission concerned
that the powers of 'patronage' (I've used a small "p")
are disproportionately high? |
| 2) Voter apathy |
| There are many contributory reasons for the low turnout
and I won't make any claims that one reason is overriding.
However I do think the voting system is partly to blame.
Where I live, the same political party has controlled
the Council(s) and been represented at Westminster for
80 years. As many as one-third of the Councillors are
normally unopposed. With first-past-the-post elections,
there is absolutely no pint in voting here because the
result is a foregone conclusion. In practice, the same
is true for at least 30 of the 40 constituency seats. |
| The regional list elections do not solve this problem.
Here you vote for a party and have even less say over
the individuals elected. Very few people, including the
regional AMs, seem to know what they are supposed to do
as regional AMs (as AMs, yes, they do know their role). |
| In my opinion, the obvious way to overcome these problems
is to use STV. I won't argue the case in full on Thursday
as I have been asked by the Parliament for Wales campaign
to do so at a later date. However, just on the issue of
voter apathy, |
| a) with STV in multi-member constituencies, there are
NO safe seats and, even in Blaenau Gwent, there would
be a genuine contest for at least the last seat, |
| b) all AMs would have constituencies and constituency
responsibilities. |
| c) voters have a choice of personalities, who they can
relate to, as well as parties |
| 3) Simplicity |
| I think every independent observer is agreed that the
two-vote system has proved confusing to the voters. Unless
someone wants to argue that the Irish are smarter than
the Welsh, there can be little doubt that STV is simpler
than the present arrangements and (as I may have to demonstrate
later), much more flexible and fairer than the present
fixed-size constituencies for FPTP. |
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Dr John Cox
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Peiriannydd Ymgynghorol
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| Why does WAG need new tax raising powers when it already
raises taxes by giving less to Local Authorities and leaving
them to increase Council Taxes to cover the shortfall? |
| Is the Commission aware that, even with the secondary
powers WAG has that this causes problems with the differences
for border areas. We have a long, not well-defined border
with England and people from both sides use the services
of the other. One example is choice of GP. |
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Brian R Hood
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| The Assembly should have complete control
of Welsh affairs, including legislation and tax raising.
However, certain matters, for entirely practical reasons,
should be reserved to Westminster - Defence, foreign affairs,
custom duties and VAT. It should be within the power of
the Assembly to accept or reject Westminster legislation
and to put forward Bills for Westminster to consider in
certain cases (and Westminster should NOT be able to refuse
to find time for them). While foreign affairs and perhaps
other matters might be in London hands, Wales should have
the right of veto. |
| The current system of election could be improved: some
form of the single transferable vote, a requirement that
all parties should put up a significant list of alternative
candidates (as used to be done in the Soviet Union), there
should be a write-in facility for voters to nominate and
vote for other people not officially listed. A larger
Assembly might be an advantage but I would suggest that
we do not need anything like the number in Westminster
- 100 or very few more. |
| There should be a separate Welsh Civil Service, fewer
in numbers and far less byzantine than the UK one. |
| There should be some form of electronic voting, which
would enable referendums on all major issues. Further,
a reasonable number of citizens should have the right
to requisition a referendum on any motion they thought
important and the result should be binding on the WAG. |
| I would hope to see an early revision of Welsh Local
Government resulting with a return to the smaller councils
of the past, and very many functions such as education,
libraries, transport etc. handed over to separate elected
boards covering large areas of Wales or perhaps even all
Wales. |
| In the longer term, I see no reason why Westminster
should continue as a parliament. All-Britain affairs could
well be handled by committees or by joint sessions of
our Assembly, the Scottish Parliament, whatever bodies
the English might adopt and perhaps even the Irish parliament
and the Cornish one. Modern communications have largely
eliminated the need for physical travel to conferences. |
| One suspects that the European movement has passed its
peak and that we shall see a swing away from the all-Europe
rule. Some of the objections to our national rights of
self-determination will therefore lose their weight. Accordingly,
we should hope f or our own distinctive institutions and
our own chosen code of laws to emerge. |
| As the Assembly matures as a full governing body, we
should think whether it needs a second chamber. My view
is that a second chamber is needed to regulate, to advise
and moderate. Everything that Plato said about democracy
still holds good. Although it is morally the necessary
option, it has its dangers and needs some checks, of which
a written constitution, a regulating body and also a constitutional
court are the most obvious. |
| To have one elected body supervising another seems illogical.
The Americans stumbled into that solution for their Senate
and it seems to work moderately well for them but then,
they were carried along by a wave of resentment against
the hereditary principle. That was an historical accident.
In fact, hereditary principle is not at all a bad way
of selecting people in that it means they are completely
outside the ordinary political system. Alternatives include
random selection (which would throw up a fair number of
people with totally unsuitable backgrounds) and ex officio
appointment. The great landowners and the old princely
houses are an almost extinct resource so my vote would
go for an ex officio second chamber, including people
like religious leaders, university Vice Chancellors, Trade
Union Leaders, the CBI, sports representatives, consumer
bodies and the like. Particularly prof. Of Philosophy
and Welsh History. |
| Perhaps we should leave the constitution and the constitutional
court for now. |
| We should touch on the need for a President though.
As long as there is a U.K. which we have to assume, the
Queen or King of England will have to remain the ultimate
sovereign. However, as we saw years ago, we can still
have, and I suggest need, our own Head of State here.
The old princely house s are very faded now so perhaps
the best recourse would be Presidents elected by and from
the upper house for a set period. |
| You will meet, particularly in Newport, a very vocal
group calling for the abolition of the Assembly. If you
analyse their position you will see there are two strands
in it. First there are a lot of first, second and even
third generation English immigrants who simply cannot
accept that they have crossed the border into another
country and have no loyalty to Wales at all (much the
same as you find with Russians in the Baltic States).
Secondly, there are very many people who have just lost
all faith in politics and dislike all politicians and
all forms of government, Politicians and the media always
try to picture that as a failure of communication and
want to correct it by making politics more "sexy". That
is nonsense or deceit. In fact the popular response is
quite sensible. There is a genuine failure of democracy,
It has been replaced by a system that has the outer trappings
of democracy but is in fact a system in which those who
have the knack and the inclination can exercise power
over others. |
| What we need is, paradoxically perhaps, on the one hand
a return to real democracy, which modern communications
make far more available than it has been since the citizens
of Athens could all meet in a field, and the other hand
a proper set of constitutional machinery whereby the excesses
and faults of democracy can be regulated and to which
the citizen can appeal when he fears elected tyranny. |
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D.C.Sage
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| "Why extend the powers when 40 MPs can
do the same job? |
| Why extend the number of AMs when discussion is about
where monies should be spread around Wales? |
| 20 regional seats should be abolished. It only serves
rejected individual aspirations to another chance of gaining
a seat". |
| The power of the Assembly and its limitations has widely
been condemned by the people of Wales |
| In the referendum and the attitude/apathy of their actions
on polling days |
| The Welsh nationalists who advocate more powers. Self
government was clearly rejected at the polls. |
| PR will not enhance the fundamental issues in Wales.
It is irrelevant to the needs of the people. PR serves
minority groups who seek nothing more than self interest. |
| Political parties show whats on offer on polling days
hence the electorate show their approval or lack of it.
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| No Commission can expect to arrive at a conclusion without
the consensus of the whole electorate. |
| The facts speak for themselves: |
| LABOUR 75,522 |
| CONS 34,231 |
| P.C. 21,384 |
| LIB 17,661 |
| 2nd vote disenfranchises people (the electorate
– the people who really matter). |
| The above figures make a mockery of the 2nd
vote. Labour did not gain an extra seat in spite of a
massive majority. |
| Clearly the electorate in Wales massively supports no
extra powers, no self government, no extra seats, and
abolish the list seats." |
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